Comments on: Are Interactive Movies Games or Art? http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/ Daily coverage of what is truly interesting in the film world Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:40:26 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: games to play at work http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-3411 games to play at work Fri, 28 Sep 2007 06:06:02 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-3411 <strong>games to play at work...</strong> ... games to play at work…

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]]> By: Vidiocy » Blatant Self Promotion Roundup #308 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-372 Vidiocy » Blatant Self Promotion Roundup #308 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 15:20:07 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-372 [...] Roger Ebert has rankled gamer fanboys by insisting that video games are not fine art. But what about interactive, game-like movies? [...] [...] Roger Ebert has rankled gamer fanboys by insisting that video games are not fine art. But what about interactive, game-like movies? [...]

]]> By: Kevin Buist http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-363 Kevin Buist Tue, 07 Aug 2007 17:10:57 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-363 the relationship between artist and viewer is becoming more and more murky, as far as a see it. what's great about games is they effectively offer a 3rd role, the player. so who's the artist? the programmer or the player? both. or neither. it doesn't really matter. the very fact that game are so good at confusing this point is what makes them interesting to view as art. in that case, it starts to look like i'm the artist, because i'm the viewer who decided to declare games art (a la Duchamp and his urinal, Warhol and his soup can). in the end i don't think it requires a genius artist to pin a label on it. if we collectively decide to look at games as if they're art, we'll learn from them the same way we do from the other arts. the relationship between artist and viewer is becoming more and more murky, as far as a see it. what’s great about games is they effectively offer a 3rd role, the player. so who’s the artist? the programmer or the player? both. or neither. it doesn’t really matter. the very fact that game are so good at confusing this point is what makes them interesting to view as art. in that case, it starts to look like i’m the artist, because i’m the viewer who decided to declare games art (a la Duchamp and his urinal, Warhol and his soup can).

in the end i don’t think it requires a genius artist to pin a label on it. if we collectively decide to look at games as if they’re art, we’ll learn from them the same way we do from the other arts.

]]> By: Chuck http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-361 Chuck Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:26:12 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-361 Just to push things a little further, Ebert isn't actually saying that a Campbbell's is art, but only its representation by Warhol (something he acknowledges at the end of the essay), so there's an inherent dodge that he's taking, one based on the need for the (great) artist to confer the status of art onto an object. Just to push things a little further, Ebert isn’t actually saying that a Campbbell’s is art, but only its representation by Warhol (something he acknowledges at the end of the essay), so there’s an inherent dodge that he’s taking, one based on the need for the (great) artist to confer the status of art onto an object.

]]> By: Kevin Buist http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-359 Kevin Buist Tue, 07 Aug 2007 16:16:09 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-359 as a film lover, artist, and gamer, this topic is pretty interesting to me. i agree that Ebert's definition of art is hopelessly strict and outdated. the only way he's able to remain an even semi-relevant critic is because he works in film, an art form filled a lot of conventions. i do see a value in looking at video games as art. or maybe i should say looking at them through the lens of art. whether or not the programmers of WoW or DOOM intended it to be Art with a capital A isn't really relevant. but what these games do offer is a fascinating look into how new media shapes visual culture, community, and narrative. kind of like the way LOLcats and 1337speak aren't poetry, but if you want to find the really interesting, cutting edge ways that the rules of language are being stretched, look no further. who cares what it's called? as a film lover, artist, and gamer, this topic is pretty interesting to me.

i agree that Ebert’s definition of art is hopelessly strict and outdated. the only way he’s able to remain an even semi-relevant critic is because he works in film, an art form filled a lot of conventions.

i do see a value in looking at video games as art. or maybe i should say looking at them through the lens of art. whether or not the programmers of WoW or DOOM intended it to be Art with a capital A isn’t really relevant. but what these games do offer is a fascinating look into how new media shapes visual culture, community, and narrative. kind of like the way LOLcats and 1337speak aren’t poetry, but if you want to find the really interesting, cutting edge ways that the rules of language are being stretched, look no further. who cares what it’s called?

]]> By: gabe http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-357 gabe Tue, 07 Aug 2007 15:10:03 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-357 That gamers are so invested in the issue of whether a video game ought to be considered art is itself worthy of note. Ebert's assertion that “anything can be art. Even a can of Campbell’s soup" seems an acceptable compromise. The distinction he makes between high art and art, and his rationale for the distinction are more puzzling: " What I should have said is that games could not be high art, as I understand it…Art seeks to lead you to an inevitable conclusion, not a smorgasbord of choices.” Were we to transpose this argument to the world of Board Games, which would be considered art? Chess--arguably the masterpiece of boardgames is defined by its choices--its conclusion anything by inevitable. Yet there are times when the game becomes art. Likewise--Go. Meanwhile games like Candyland or Chutes and Ladders would hardly be considered works of art--yet there is an artistry to each. That gamers are so invested in the issue of whether a video game ought to be considered art is itself worthy of note. Ebert’s assertion that “anything can be art. Even a can of Campbell’s soup” seems an acceptable compromise. The distinction he makes between high art and art, and his rationale for the distinction are more puzzling: ” What I should have said is that games could not be high art, as I understand it…Art seeks to lead you to an inevitable conclusion, not a smorgasbord of choices.” Were we to transpose this argument to the world of Board Games, which would be considered art? Chess–arguably the masterpiece of boardgames is defined by its choices–its conclusion anything by inevitable. Yet there are times when the game becomes art. Likewise–Go. Meanwhile games like Candyland or Chutes and Ladders would hardly be considered works of art–yet there is an artistry to each.

]]> By: The Chutry Experiment » Mutable Cinema http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-356 The Chutry Experiment » Mutable Cinema Tue, 07 Aug 2007 14:53:27 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-356 [...] as “art,” the narrative structure of much interactive cinema seems to be related to gaming narratives, which was certainly the case with Mystery at Mansfield Manor, an interactive movie I reviewed [...] [...] as “art,” the narrative structure of much interactive cinema seems to be related to gaming narratives, which was certainly the case with Mystery at Mansfield Manor, an interactive movie I reviewed [...]

]]> By: Chuck http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-353 Chuck Tue, 07 Aug 2007 12:43:58 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-353 Lots to mull over here, and once I play with Mutable Cinema for a bit, I'll try to blog about it. I think you're absolutely right about art necessarily leading to "inevitable conclusions." That's a very strict, limiting definition of art. I have some problems with this binary between "games" and "art," but I think I'm simply generally skeptical when it comes to reifying something as a work of art because that often carries with it the perception that the artwork is somehow removed from mass culture. I think that the idea of game as art form is less about the competitive performance than the narrative world scripted by the game's designers. That being said, I'm not sure what the benefit would be of looking at Doom, WoW, or even Pac-Man as a work of art. Lots to mull over here, and once I play with Mutable Cinema for a bit, I’ll try to blog about it. I think you’re absolutely right about art necessarily leading to “inevitable conclusions.” That’s a very strict, limiting definition of art.

I have some problems with this binary between “games” and “art,” but I think I’m simply generally skeptical when it comes to reifying something as a work of art because that often carries with it the perception that the artwork is somehow removed from mass culture.

I think that the idea of game as art form is less about the competitive performance than the narrative world scripted by the game’s designers. That being said, I’m not sure what the benefit would be of looking at Doom, WoW, or even Pac-Man as a work of art.

]]> By: Are Interactive Movies Games or Art? - Movie reviews - Spout http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-349 Are Interactive Movies Games or Art? - Movie reviews - Spout Mon, 06 Aug 2007 23:01:09 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2007/08/06/are-interactive-movies-games-or-art/#comment-349 [...] (more…) Originally posted on:Spoutblog [...] [...] (more…) Originally posted on:Spoutblog [...]

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