Festival hopping, from True/False to SXSW. To help kick off our South by Southwest coverage, Paul and Kevin reflect on Medicine for Melancholy, and talk with writer/director Barry Jenkins about race, identity, and San Fransisco. Between festivals, Karina manages to find time to share some stories about the True/False Film Festival. The small town Missouri fest is fast becoming a premiere destination for non-fiction film. Karina offers her thoughts on Forbidden Lies.
Transcript of the Barry Jenkins interview after the jump…
Barry Jenkins: A lot of the conversation in the film, I actually had with my ex-girlfriend, who was white. And when I first wrote the script, I kind of wrote it very autobiographical, this woman and I, my ex.
And then it just seemed more interesting… it’s just seemed too on the nose that it would be kind of this “Jungle Fever” thing going on. And so, I thought it would be more complex if it was two people of color speaking about it, because you would just assume that they would agree about everything.
And then, you put these two characters, they’re kind of like both these middleclass kind of like artsy black kids or whatever, but they still don’t agree on every single issue. And so, I just thought it was more interesting that way.
And I remember, my ex and I, we went to MOMA one Sunday, and we were in the museum and we were in there for like an hour and a half. And by the time we returned, I just felt really sad, because I felt there was no representation of African American artists in MOMA.
And so, when that little line comes up where she’s like, “Let’s go to MOMA,” he’s like, “I don’t want to go to MOMA.” That’s kind of just about how I was feeling that day.
Paul Moore: I’m curious, you brought up your girlfriend earlier and how that dialogue started as a dialogue between you two. And then, I read when Karina had emailed an interview with you on SpoutBlog, that this whole script sort of came out of a breakup between you and her.
Barry: Yeah.
Paul: But, as you mentioned, she’s a white girl, and this is a script in which two black people get together who, one’s with a white guy and the man has just broken up with a white girl. That’s what we took away from it.
Barry: That’s it. That is it. I tried to be real subtle. Thank you. That’s it.
Paul: Yeah, I guess, I’m wondering how you got to this point. I don’t know. I’m just wondering what happened after this breakup that you were feeling compelled to…
Barry: What happens in the movie isn’t exactly what happened to me. It was kind of just an extrapolation of just all these really weird thought I had. Like, “Ah, I’m never going to data white woman again.” I was like, “Oh, I have to find a black woman. I have to find a black woman.” It was really crazy.
And it went on for, like, a month. And it was such an intense feeling that when I came out the other side of it, I looked back and I was like, “Wow, I was a really interesting character for that month.” And then, when my ex broke up with me, I kind of just put all those feelings into that scenario. And I was like, “Ah, this could be really interesting.”
And I thought it was a chance just to comment on the city of San Francisco, because I moved there for the woman who I was in that relationship with. So, it was just all these things tied up together. And I thought I’d just put it all into the movie.
Paul: And Micah’s character is the one who just makes the movie juicy and brings up a lot of stuff that particularly, as you mentioned in the movie, he is a black man who, all of his interests propel him into places where he’s surrounded by white people.
Barry: Exactly.
Paul: His interest in art and interest in culture and his interest in music. And it sounds like you are obviously him, or at least for a month you were. So, what is it that… I know the question that’s about to come out of my mouth, and I’m embarrassed. I was going to say, like…
Barry: No, it’s cool.
Paul: What’s he feeling? [laughs] What is this specimen feeling?
[laughter]
Paul: But… Yeah, sorry.
Barry: God, it’s weird, because after we had made the film, and we realized that the film was going to turn out all right. Justin, the producer, and I were standing on top of a hill and we were talking about the movie. And he was like there’s always this thing you work out when you make the movie and he was like, “What do you think that thing is?”
And I was like I’m trying to phrase it right, because it’s really hard to articulate but I think, he’s not comfortable with his identity. It’s almost like he hates himself because he feels all these things that he loves, like you said, they force him into being in these situations where he’s surrounded by white people.
And so, he has this kind of conflict where he’s like, “Am I black? Am I comfortable being black? Am I not comfortable with being black because I’m afraid to be comfortable with being black because I’m surrounded by all these white people and I think it’ll make them uncomfortable for me to be comfortable with being black?” It’s crazy.
Paul: Yeah.
Barry: And then, you look at the character Jo, and she doesn’t have any of those issues at all. And I think, for me, the film spins on these two sides of my personality, which one side that you’ve discussed is Micah, this crazy guy that’s caught up in this loop of identity and he’ll never be comfortable with himself. And then, the woman, Jo, who’s so comfortable with herself, she’s so progressive, that she just seems to not be aware of these things that Micah’s so caught up with.
And I think, both sides are valid, and I think, that’s why the film works, to follow the two of them, because you really want to see how they react to one another.
Kevin Buist: Yeah. That idea of identity is interesting, because even if all of the discussions of race as an issue were deleted from the film, I think that it would still speak really loudly about the formation of identity. I think it actually goes through experiences that probably everybody has had, usually in their 20s, when you’re…
Barry: That’s cool. I really appreciate that.
Kevin: Like when you bounce ideas and emotions off of another person that you find, those are huge moments of formation of identity. Even regardless of that, and to stack race on top of that obviously adds another layer of drama.
Barry: Yeah. And that’s I felt like it was time to make the film. The premise was just two people meet after a onenight stand, but just like you said, if you put those things on top of it, you try to articulate those things through that frame; I think, then it makes the movie worthwhile. Otherwise you’re just wandering around with these two people.
But, you’re right; there’s a moment in these two characters’ lives that they’re both going to remember; they’ve been changed.
Paul: So, I’m curious as to like… I don’t know, in this movie it seems kind of simple to just sort of divide two people out of one struggle. She’s at peace with herself to the point of being apathetic and he’s so not at peace. You know?
Barry: Right.
Paul: It’s like he needs… Do you think that…
Barry: You dudes are smart. I like that. “To the point of being apathetic.” I’m going to use that. I’m going to use that on the circuit, all right?
Paul: I appreciate that.
Kevin: Go for it. [laughs] Done and done.
Barry: [laughs] I’m sorry. I cut you off.
Paul: Just say, “Well, Paul Moore from spout.com would use the word ‘apathetic.’”
[laughter]
Paul: I felt like what a lot of this movie was doing, and forgive me if I sound really white here, but it was like raising to my attention something that I just glossed over. Because both Kevin and I went to art school and experienced that scenario of, like, you’re in a class with 30 people and there’s one black guy.
It’s a culture that seems to be magnetic for a whole lot of white people. Do you think that the movie… I guess, the struggling to find that identity in that movie, do you think some of that’s happening, like, across the board?
Barry: I think it does happen across the board. I think everybody kind of struggles to assert their identity, especially in that time period where you’re in your mid to late 20s and you’re out of college and, theoretically, you’re going to get into your career; where really there’s nothing going on.
I think, everybody has those issues, but I think for African Americans in cities like San Francisco, especially people, like you said, in the art world or the indy world, which is what we call it in film, or the hipster world, if you want to refer to it, I think, it’s even more present.
There’s this quote by James Baldwin, where he’s talking about how the black artist… I don’t know if he says he can never really reach his full artistic potential or he’s just going to have a more difficult time getting there because he first has to always confront the issue of his race before he can truly confront the issue of his art.
Like with this film, I felt like I have to get through the issue of it being a black film and me being a black filmmaker and it being about black characters, before I can get to issues of it being about love or about class or about gender and things like that. I think that will always be the case for me subconsciously, even when I approach making a film.
So, am I ever going to really approach a film as just making a film, or is it always going to be a statement or a reflection of my identity?
