Comments on: In Defense of The M-Word as Offense http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/ Daily coverage of what is truly interesting in the film world Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:14:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: teh holly http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82928 teh holly Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:28:49 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82928 Enjoy it while it lasts, because one idea doesn't negate the other along the path to selling out, err I mean, getting discovered. Was it a production sound mixer or a post sound editor or mixer that originally gave it the term? Indiscreet sound is their bane of existence. Enjoy it while it lasts, because one idea doesn’t negate the other along the path to selling out, err I mean, getting discovered. Was it a production sound mixer or a post sound editor or mixer that originally gave it the term? Indiscreet sound is their bane of existence.

]]> By: Noralil Fores http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82925 Noralil Fores Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:02:59 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82925 Hey Peter: To my understanding Bujalski was one of the very first to speak out about 'mumblecore,' refuting both its existence and importance. So, on that, he's been there, for months, in a very vocal way. Wynns, I'm amazed you left a comment. Karina, as always, you're right, and for my part, the whole crew is in my estimation a generation and so very far from a movement that every time so one brings up 'mumblecore' in conversation I think of them as having antiquated views. As it stands, as you've said, these are amazing filmmakers who define not a movement so much as trends of the time through their own set of specifics. Ultimately a movement begs for a set of outlined principles, whether consciously or unconsciously made. There are few to no shared principals in any of these filmmakers works. Hey Peter: To my understanding Bujalski was one of the very first to speak out about ‘mumblecore,’ refuting both its existence and importance. So, on that, he’s been there, for months, in a very vocal way.

Wynns, I’m amazed you left a comment.

Karina, as always, you’re right, and for my part, the whole crew is in my estimation a generation and so very far from a movement that every time so one brings up ‘mumblecore’ in conversation I think of them as having antiquated views. As it stands, as you’ve said, these are amazing filmmakers who define not a movement so much as trends of the time through their own set of specifics. Ultimately a movement begs for a set of outlined principles, whether consciously or unconsciously made. There are few to no shared principals in any of these filmmakers works.

]]> By: Anonymous http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82880 Anonymous Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:30:25 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82880 Has Peter Debruge forgotten that the NYTimes already wrote a feature about Andrew Bujalski over a year before anyone in the mainstream media was buzzing about any of this "mumblecore" business? All this talk of a "movement" has really diluted discussion about the substantial talents some of these filmmakers possess; talents that many others lumped alongside them simply do not have, or in the very least, have yet to display. The filmmakers who have capitalized most off the notion of "mumblecore" are, to my mind, also the least deserving of the additional media coverage. It's unfair that the backlash against some lame films from summer '07 has dragged the names of some good films from summer '06 into this mess. Has Peter Debruge forgotten that the NYTimes already wrote a feature about Andrew Bujalski over a year before anyone in the mainstream media was buzzing about any of this “mumblecore” business?

All this talk of a “movement” has really diluted discussion about the substantial talents some of these filmmakers possess; talents that many others lumped alongside them simply do not have, or in the very least, have yet to display. The filmmakers who have capitalized most off the notion of “mumblecore” are, to my mind, also the least deserving of the additional media coverage. It’s unfair that the backlash against some lame films from summer ‘07 has dragged the names of some good films from summer ‘06 into this mess.

]]> By: Peter http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82870 Peter Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:58:47 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82870 If i were Bujalski i would be very upset to be lumped in with Swanberg and the rest. Not just for reasons of a technical nature, but primarily for content, execution and depth. If i were Bujalski i would be very upset to be lumped in with Swanberg and the rest. Not just for reasons of a technical nature, but primarily for content, execution and depth.

]]> By: badMike http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82864 badMike Thu, 13 Mar 2008 18:26:45 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82864 I'm still trying to figure out what Debruge said that's so bad. I haven't seen a single Mumblecore movie myself so I can't speak about what that particular movement's about or if it even is one from personal experience. However, "means of production" is a totally valid descriptor of a film "movement." Not as a sole descriptor it doesn't hold up, but as a part as Debruge uses it, yes. Are "Scorpio Rising" and "Flaming Creatures" anything alike? Not hardly, but you can certainly lump Smith and Anger into the same New American Cinema movement of the '60s and use the fact that both men used 16mm, worked with extremely low budgets and were celebrated and appreciated by the same audiences as uniting them. I also don't know if either Smith or Anger's films were written about in the NYTimes in the '60s, but instead of blogs today those films were mostly championed by Jonas Mekas in the Voice and in other "underground" media. It's always the same that there are going to be film styles and "movements" ignored by the more mainstream media. If Mumblecore is covered by the mainstream, even in a slightly condescending way then that's probably a step up for it. I’m still trying to figure out what Debruge said that’s so bad. I haven’t seen a single Mumblecore movie myself so I can’t speak about what that particular movement’s about or if it even is one from personal experience.

However, “means of production” is a totally valid descriptor of a film “movement.” Not as a sole descriptor it doesn’t hold up, but as a part as Debruge uses it, yes.

Are “Scorpio Rising” and “Flaming Creatures” anything alike? Not hardly, but you can certainly lump Smith and Anger into the same New American Cinema movement of the ’60s and use the fact that both men used 16mm, worked with extremely low budgets and were celebrated and appreciated by the same audiences as uniting them.

I also don’t know if either Smith or Anger’s films were written about in the NYTimes in the ’60s, but instead of blogs today those films were mostly championed by Jonas Mekas in the Voice and in other “underground” media. It’s always the same that there are going to be film styles and “movements” ignored by the more mainstream media. If Mumblecore is covered by the mainstream, even in a slightly condescending way then that’s probably a step up for it.

]]> By: mutinyco http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82847 mutinyco Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:51:59 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82847 Bring back the bald guy with the beard... Bring back the bald guy with the beard…

]]> By: teh holly http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82840 teh holly Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:12:30 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82840 Peter's comment is a good read. Peter’s comment is a good read.

]]> By: wynns http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82834 wynns Thu, 13 Mar 2008 15:46:59 +0000 http://blog.spout.com/2008/03/13/in-defense-of-the-m-word-as-offense/#comment-82834 Exactly. Exactly.

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