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	<title>Comments on: Film Critics &#038; The Audience: Peeing on the Professionals</title>
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	<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/</link>
	<description>Daily coverage of what is truly interesting in the film world</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113748</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113748</guid>
		<description>Believe what you like, Steve. Apparently we see the line between "self-referencing" and "self-indulgent" somewhat differently...and disagree about what constitutes "twaddle," not to mention bad copy. 

What I find most hilarious about all this is that I've actually got some stories that would curl even Wissot's hair. I'm just not giving them away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Believe what you like, Steve. Apparently we see the line between &#8220;self-referencing&#8221; and &#8220;self-indulgent&#8221; somewhat differently&#8230;and disagree about what constitutes &#8220;twaddle,&#8221; not to mention bad copy. </p>
<p>What I find most hilarious about all this is that I&#8217;ve actually got some stories that would curl even Wissot&#8217;s hair. I&#8217;m just not giving them away.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve B</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113745</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113745</guid>
		<description>Glenn,

For a guy who had a blog called In the Company of Glenn and who recently blogged about his vacation, you draw a pretty hard line on self-indulgent commentary. And, weirder still, your &lt;i&gt;George&lt;/i&gt;-referencing recollection of the Worldwide theater wasn't even your own but your co-worker's. At least Lauren wrote about someone she personally fucked.

This is silly. Nobody throws a fit when J. Hoberman mentions his friendships with filmmakers (such as a recent recollection of his relationship with Ken Jacobs and family in a review of son Azazel's movie) or raises an eyebrow at Jonathan Rosenbaum's I I me me surveys of various films. I have to conclude that it's the sex talk that got you guys so hot and bothered. Me, I find it interesting when somebody writes about the connections between films and real life that occur beyond 9-5 and behind closed doors. The movies we write about are big commercial enterprises, yes, but they reach in personal places-- and I dunno about you, but I find myself arguing passionately about this stuff in the strangest places.

Filmbrain, what rich person can we beg to build another $3 (shit, or even $5) cinema in NYC? With insomniac late late shows? Yeah, I'm dreaming, but, damn...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn,</p>
<p>For a guy who had a blog called In the Company of Glenn and who recently blogged about his vacation, you draw a pretty hard line on self-indulgent commentary. And, weirder still, your <i>George</i>-referencing recollection of the Worldwide theater wasn&#8217;t even your own but your co-worker&#8217;s. At least Lauren wrote about someone she personally fucked.</p>
<p>This is silly. Nobody throws a fit when J. Hoberman mentions his friendships with filmmakers (such as a recent recollection of his relationship with Ken Jacobs and family in a review of son Azazel&#8217;s movie) or raises an eyebrow at Jonathan Rosenbaum&#8217;s I I me me surveys of various films. I have to conclude that it&#8217;s the sex talk that got you guys so hot and bothered. Me, I find it interesting when somebody writes about the connections between films and real life that occur beyond 9-5 and behind closed doors. The movies we write about are big commercial enterprises, yes, but they reach in personal places&#8211; and I dunno about you, but I find myself arguing passionately about this stuff in the strangest places.</p>
<p>Filmbrain, what rich person can we beg to build another $3 (shit, or even $5) cinema in NYC? With insomniac late late shows? Yeah, I&#8217;m dreaming, but, damn&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Filmbrain</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113711</link>
		<dc:creator>Filmbrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 18:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113711</guid>
		<description>Steve --

It's noble of you to defend your colleague, but come on....Wissot blew it in that piece by feeling the need to share with us who she fucks (and how great it was.) It smacks of both insecurity and immaturity. (I'll go on record to say I don't believe her tale of a heterosexual bodybuilder/personal trainer who discusses Dietrich.) Yet anyone and everyone who raised a similar point was labeled a prude. Please. This has nothing to do with sexism, or some sinister cabal of white male critics trying to suppress her sexuality. 

The subject of her piece is fine, and well worth exploring, but the narcissistic post she turned in is more suited for Livejournal than it is for The House Next Door.

On a lighter note, I couldn't agree more with you about the Worldwide. So obsessed with the place was I that I would find myself going there 3-4 times per week JUST for the experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve &#8211;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s noble of you to defend your colleague, but come on&#8230;.Wissot blew it in that piece by feeling the need to share with us who she fucks (and how great it was.) It smacks of both insecurity and immaturity. (I&#8217;ll go on record to say I don&#8217;t believe her tale of a heterosexual bodybuilder/personal trainer who discusses Dietrich.) Yet anyone and everyone who raised a similar point was labeled a prude. Please. This has nothing to do with sexism, or some sinister cabal of white male critics trying to suppress her sexuality. </p>
<p>The subject of her piece is fine, and well worth exploring, but the narcissistic post she turned in is more suited for Livejournal than it is for The House Next Door.</p>
<p>On a lighter note, I couldn&#8217;t agree more with you about the Worldwide. So obsessed with the place was I that I would find myself going there 3-4 times per week JUST for the experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113689</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113689</guid>
		<description>Spare me the "grown-ass woman/grown-ass man" bullshit, Steve. Just because I think Wissot writes a lot of self-indulgent twaddle, it doesn't necessarily follow that I'm a prude, or a sexist, or that I'm at all affronted by her putative daring. You don't know a single thing about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spare me the &#8220;grown-ass woman/grown-ass man&#8221; bullshit, Steve. Just because I think Wissot writes a lot of self-indulgent twaddle, it doesn&#8217;t necessarily follow that I&#8217;m a prude, or a sexist, or that I&#8217;m at all affronted by her putative daring. You don&#8217;t know a single thing about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve B</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113653</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113653</guid>
		<description>Glenn,

I disagree with your opinion of Lauren's talent and how well/poorly it served her argument. She and I both talk about how films relate to our lives. I got the sense that some of the negative reactions to her piece were more about her life than her prose or even her point. How dare she include strange, incongruous episodes from her life in a film discussion? How dare she describe a sexual encounter without apologetic preamble or apology? Maybe cuz she's a grown-ass woman and expects you to react as a grown-ass man?

As for Manny Farber, I was talking about the effete, delicate flower that the anonymous reader had evoked. I was destroying the Farber of that person's imagination, not the real guy. Folks build Kael up the same way now that she's dead-- as if she weren't street-level when she was here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn,</p>
<p>I disagree with your opinion of Lauren&#8217;s talent and how well/poorly it served her argument. She and I both talk about how films relate to our lives. I got the sense that some of the negative reactions to her piece were more about her life than her prose or even her point. How dare she include strange, incongruous episodes from her life in a film discussion? How dare she describe a sexual encounter without apologetic preamble or apology? Maybe cuz she&#8217;s a grown-ass woman and expects you to react as a grown-ass man?</p>
<p>As for Manny Farber, I was talking about the effete, delicate flower that the anonymous reader had evoked. I was destroying the Farber of that person&#8217;s imagination, not the real guy. Folks build Kael up the same way now that she&#8217;s dead&#8211; as if she weren&#8217;t street-level when she was here.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113521</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 05:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113521</guid>
		<description>Because you, unlike your colleague Ms. Wissot, actually have some writing talent, your version of her argument is more engaging and cogent than the original. I'm just not sure who, precisely, you're pitching it at. 

And I don't know where you get this notion that Manny Farber was some kind of effete, delicate flower averse to profanity, mild or otherwise. I dare say were he alive, and inclined to pay you any mind, he'd laugh in your face and tell you to, well,  piss off. 

Incidental factoid for gossip lovers: that much-missed Cineplex Odeon was a favorite hangout of my old office mate John Kennedy  Jr. —when things got too stressful at "George" he'd duck outta 1633 Broadway and go down the block to take in a matinee. We caught a couple of the same shows there, in fact...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because you, unlike your colleague Ms. Wissot, actually have some writing talent, your version of her argument is more engaging and cogent than the original. I&#8217;m just not sure who, precisely, you&#8217;re pitching it at. </p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t know where you get this notion that Manny Farber was some kind of effete, delicate flower averse to profanity, mild or otherwise. I dare say were he alive, and inclined to pay you any mind, he&#8217;d laugh in your face and tell you to, well,  piss off. </p>
<p>Incidental factoid for gossip lovers: that much-missed Cineplex Odeon was a favorite hangout of my old office mate John Kennedy  Jr. —when things got too stressful at &#8220;George&#8221; he&#8217;d duck outta 1633 Broadway and go down the block to take in a matinee. We caught a couple of the same shows there, in fact&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Plowman</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113443</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Plowman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113443</guid>
		<description>Love this post, love the word "pee" and love the new layout. Kudos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love this post, love the word &#8220;pee&#8221; and love the new layout. Kudos.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113442</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113442</guid>
		<description>Neither does it excuse typos.  Yeesh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither does it excuse typos.  Yeesh.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek Jenkins</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113441</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek Jenkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113441</guid>
		<description>That's Agee quote, an invocation from the beginning of his long career (or the beginning of whatever collection someone (Knight?) dipped into), cherry-picks from the distinguished remains of a writer who stretched language to just within its breaking point. The response at Wissot's tossed-off missive had less to do with professionalism and taste than the simple fact of her bad writing. Maybe film criticism is anyone's game, but that doesn't excuse lazy and indulgent sentences. Agee would have never settled for that....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s Agee quote, an invocation from the beginning of his long career (or the beginning of whatever collection someone (Knight?) dipped into), cherry-picks from the distinguished remains of a writer who stretched language to just within its breaking point. The response at Wissot&#8217;s tossed-off missive had less to do with professionalism and taste than the simple fact of her bad writing. Maybe film criticism is anyone&#8217;s game, but that doesn&#8217;t excuse lazy and indulgent sentences. Agee would have never settled for that&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Everleth</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/09/05/film-critics-the-audience-peeing-on-the-professionals/#comment-113438</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Everleth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=4646#comment-113438</guid>
		<description>That's a nice Agee quote. What's a professional film critic other than just a movie lover who happens to write and/or speak well? I also liked Lauren's piece since it so nicely shoots down the "movie-going public" myth, as if they're a singular block or something.

Also, I used to regularly go to a $1.50 theater in PA, that showed mostly everything at one point or another. I'd go see anything I didn't feel like paying full price for and I mean anything, including Swayze and Meat Loaf in "Black Dog" and the only film I've ever walked out of, "Safe Passage."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a nice Agee quote. What&#8217;s a professional film critic other than just a movie lover who happens to write and/or speak well? I also liked Lauren&#8217;s piece since it so nicely shoots down the &#8220;movie-going public&#8221; myth, as if they&#8217;re a singular block or something.</p>
<p>Also, I used to regularly go to a $1.50 theater in PA, that showed mostly everything at one point or another. I&#8217;d go see anything I didn&#8217;t feel like paying full price for and I mean anything, including Swayze and Meat Loaf in &#8220;Black Dog&#8221; and the only film I&#8217;ve ever walked out of, &#8220;Safe Passage.&#8221;</p>
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