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	<title>Comments on: Rachel Getting Married: The Liberal Guilt Thing</title>
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	<description>Daily coverage of what is truly interesting in the film world</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 28 Nov 2009 12:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kate Hale</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-116999</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate Hale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 06:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-116999</guid>
		<description>What a joke this movie was.  I just sat there at first, shaking my head.  Then it came to me that this might REALLY be a joke.  Some parody of liberal polliictal correctness.  Lesbianism? check.  Multi-culturalism? check (to a rediculous and laughable degree).  Wealthy liberals/no jobs in sight? check.  Lots of addictions, angst, self-loathing, self-centeredness as only non-working/non-thinking liberals experience? check.  Gratuitous use of black women in skimpy attire dancing? check.  Mercedes/Volvo/Saab?  check.  Worst movie I ever saw unless I think of it in terms of a parody of the shallowness of east coast elite liberals.  Then it becomes one of the best ever for showing how most of America doesn't live.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a joke this movie was.  I just sat there at first, shaking my head.  Then it came to me that this might REALLY be a joke.  Some parody of liberal polliictal correctness.  Lesbianism? check.  Multi-culturalism? check (to a rediculous and laughable degree).  Wealthy liberals/no jobs in sight? check.  Lots of addictions, angst, self-loathing, self-centeredness as only non-working/non-thinking liberals experience? check.  Gratuitous use of black women in skimpy attire dancing? check.  Mercedes/Volvo/Saab?  check.  Worst movie I ever saw unless I think of it in terms of a parody of the shallowness of east coast elite liberals.  Then it becomes one of the best ever for showing how most of America doesn&#8217;t live.</p>
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		<title>By: Oscars vs Box Office Chapter 735 (Flix99.com)</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-116672</link>
		<dc:creator>Oscars vs Box Office Chapter 735 (Flix99.com)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-116672</guid>
		<description>[...] the film or hate it (and your lean one way or another could very well be partially ideological), you&#8217;d have to be insane to look at numbers like this for limited release film and read [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the film or hate it (and your lean one way or another could very well be partially ideological), you&#8217;d have to be insane to look at numbers like this for limited release film and read [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Morton</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-116179</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Morton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 21:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-116179</guid>
		<description>As someone who DOES back McCain, I have to say I had &lt;a href="http://vjmorton.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/victor-getting-gobsmacked/" rel="nofollow"&gt;largely the same reaction&lt;/a&gt; Ms. Longworth did. (Not the kinda support she wants I suspect, but ... oh, well.) That the film is taking the mickey out of a certain sort of multiculti display that this family can engage in, which I find wickedly funny.

BTW, I agree that by the time of a wedding, both families will have long gotten used to the inter-racial thing (and any family members who objected would likely not be there). I obviously can't speak for Ms. Longworth, but what I would say (and I think she would too) is not that plausibility REQUIRES that there be some sort of Big Conversation about it. It's more that it becomes another signifier of how much this family prizes post-60s "Unconventionality." In that sense, the very fact that there IS no Big Conversation is exactly right, and everything else Bobo in the movie reinforces that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who DOES back McCain, I have to say I had <a href="http://vjmorton.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/victor-getting-gobsmacked/" rel="nofollow">largely the same reaction</a> Ms. Longworth did. (Not the kinda support she wants I suspect, but &#8230; oh, well.) That the film is taking the mickey out of a certain sort of multiculti display that this family can engage in, which I find wickedly funny.</p>
<p>BTW, I agree that by the time of a wedding, both families will have long gotten used to the inter-racial thing (and any family members who objected would likely not be there). I obviously can&#8217;t speak for Ms. Longworth, but what I would say (and I think she would too) is not that plausibility REQUIRES that there be some sort of Big Conversation about it. It&#8217;s more that it becomes another signifier of how much this family prizes post-60s &#8220;Unconventionality.&#8221; In that sense, the very fact that there IS no Big Conversation is exactly right, and everything else Bobo in the movie reinforces that.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa Silverstein</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115489</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa Silverstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 12:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115489</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion.  I got a sense that they were a progressive family but didn't get a sense that they were in the arts.  I was also wondering (but couldn't tell) if the Buckmans (was that the family name?) were jews because the wedding service was clearly not religious.  It just seemed that the script made a conscious decision to be inclusive of all different types of cultures which made it quite interesting.  I've also never seen a mother of the bride less involved in planning her daughter's wedding but maybe that's just my experience.  

Maybe the color issue was muted because Dad (Bill Irwin) married an African American women (Anna Deveare Smith).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion.  I got a sense that they were a progressive family but didn&#8217;t get a sense that they were in the arts.  I was also wondering (but couldn&#8217;t tell) if the Buckmans (was that the family name?) were jews because the wedding service was clearly not religious.  It just seemed that the script made a conscious decision to be inclusive of all different types of cultures which made it quite interesting.  I&#8217;ve also never seen a mother of the bride less involved in planning her daughter&#8217;s wedding but maybe that&#8217;s just my experience.  </p>
<p>Maybe the color issue was muted because Dad (Bill Irwin) married an African American women (Anna Deveare Smith).</p>
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		<title>By: davis</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115437</link>
		<dc:creator>davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 17:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115437</guid>
		<description>The movie does allude to the multiculturalism when the mother-of-the-groom says "this is what heaven is like." Granted, I might be projecting; she might have been talking about the wine or the pre-wedding jitters, but I doubt it. She's referring to the beauty of the moment, the crazy quilt of the extended family. That the moment is tainted by Kym's remarks may speak to the difficulty of establishing utopia on earth, but I don't think the film intends to mock the sweet woman or expose her ideals as false. They're true, they're just hard to achieve except in briefly floating bubbles.

My favorite part of the movie is the rehearsal dinner, and one of my favorite things about it is that after Kym speaks, the scene continues. The moment is gone, but you can tell from their post-Kym laughter that everyone wishes they could bring it back even as they know they can't. To me this feels &lt;i&gt;exactly&lt;/i&gt; like the melancholy that follows every such bubble. I recognize it. The bubble is fragile, but it's not fake.

Movies are fake, and Charlie Kaufman has nothing on Demme in the synecdoche department, but there's truth in this fictional construction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The movie does allude to the multiculturalism when the mother-of-the-groom says &#8220;this is what heaven is like.&#8221; Granted, I might be projecting; she might have been talking about the wine or the pre-wedding jitters, but I doubt it. She&#8217;s referring to the beauty of the moment, the crazy quilt of the extended family. That the moment is tainted by Kym&#8217;s remarks may speak to the difficulty of establishing utopia on earth, but I don&#8217;t think the film intends to mock the sweet woman or expose her ideals as false. They&#8217;re true, they&#8217;re just hard to achieve except in briefly floating bubbles.</p>
<p>My favorite part of the movie is the rehearsal dinner, and one of my favorite things about it is that after Kym speaks, the scene continues. The moment is gone, but you can tell from their post-Kym laughter that everyone wishes they could bring it back even as they know they can&#8217;t. To me this feels <i>exactly</i> like the melancholy that follows every such bubble. I recognize it. The bubble is fragile, but it&#8217;s not fake.</p>
<p>Movies are fake, and Charlie Kaufman has nothing on Demme in the synecdoche department, but there&#8217;s truth in this fictional construction.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115432</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115432</guid>
		<description>Wow, I had no idea this was such an issue.  The people who are complaining that the multiculturalism in RGM is "implausible" (or, worse yet, "kitschy") must be the same people who complained about Katherine Heigl not getting an abortion in "Knocked Up."

Look: it's more than possible that there are race-related tensions within these families.  The movie doesn't explore them because THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS FILM IS ABOUT.  I think people are just having cognitive dissonance about seeing multiculturalism presented in a film that is not principally (or even marginally) about multiculturalism.  As for the saris and the multi-ethnic musical performances, I think Karina nailed it: the Buchmans are rich and can simply afford to adorn a wedding with fun, quirky touches (and come on, wouldn't you like to attend a wedding like this one?  everyone was having a great time).  This discussion feels a bit like McCain raising a stink about Obama's pig-lipstick line: focusing on something marginal (and misunderstanding that marginal thing) instead of getting into the meat of the issue.

If film critics aren't ready to accept a casually interracial wedding ceremony as "plausible," they might as well join in the chorus of racist voices asking "who is the real Barack Obama?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I had no idea this was such an issue.  The people who are complaining that the multiculturalism in RGM is &#8220;implausible&#8221; (or, worse yet, &#8220;kitschy&#8221;) must be the same people who complained about Katherine Heigl not getting an abortion in &#8220;Knocked Up.&#8221;</p>
<p>Look: it&#8217;s more than possible that there are race-related tensions within these families.  The movie doesn&#8217;t explore them because THAT&#8217;S NOT WHAT THIS FILM IS ABOUT.  I think people are just having cognitive dissonance about seeing multiculturalism presented in a film that is not principally (or even marginally) about multiculturalism.  As for the saris and the multi-ethnic musical performances, I think Karina nailed it: the Buchmans are rich and can simply afford to adorn a wedding with fun, quirky touches (and come on, wouldn&#8217;t you like to attend a wedding like this one?  everyone was having a great time).  This discussion feels a bit like McCain raising a stink about Obama&#8217;s pig-lipstick line: focusing on something marginal (and misunderstanding that marginal thing) instead of getting into the meat of the issue.</p>
<p>If film critics aren&#8217;t ready to accept a casually interracial wedding ceremony as &#8220;plausible,&#8221; they might as well join in the chorus of racist voices asking &#8220;who is the real Barack Obama?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy Mett</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115382</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Mett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 18:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115382</guid>
		<description>I know people in serious interracial relationships and it's a topic that nobody really gives more than a passing thought. People fall in love, the same way that people of the same gender fall in love, and sometimes they get married. I personally don't see what the issue is, or why it's being made such a big deal out of?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know people in serious interracial relationships and it&#8217;s a topic that nobody really gives more than a passing thought. People fall in love, the same way that people of the same gender fall in love, and sometimes they get married. I personally don&#8217;t see what the issue is, or why it&#8217;s being made such a big deal out of?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115378</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115378</guid>
		<description>P.S.  Me don't sometimes write well with no caffeine in my belly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Me don&#8217;t sometimes write well with no caffeine in my belly.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115375</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115375</guid>
		<description>Eh...  having seen the movie, I thought it was pretty clear that the reason why Kym's family couldn't deal with her was (SPOILER ALERT) that, as a result of her past drug abuse, she was responsible for her brother Ethan's death.  It wasn't because Kym was way too 'unconventional'.  It was because Kym's family were still angry about what Kym did.  You're reaching to say that Demme's true intent was to make these non-conformists into hypocrites.

And by the way--  I thought the multiculturalism in Rachel Getting Married was cloying.  No, I didn't have the problem with the idea of a black man and a white woman marrying to be contrived.  From having been to a lot of weddings the past five years, I know that is more and more common these days.  This is was got on my nerves during the wedding sequences:  the combination Robyn Hitchcock, a folksy string group, a garage band playing 'Here Come the Bride', saris, acapella singing,  a hip-hop dance throw-down, and a fully loaded Brazilian Drum Band.  It was too kitschy.  And I probably would have given it all a pass if Demme hadn't lingered so much on the festivities.  Yes, it's a movie about a wedding, but after awhile, it started to feel like a glorified home-movie about Demme's eclectic sensibilities.

However, I will admit that the acting in Rachel Getting Married is great, and the cinematography was exceptional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eh&#8230;  having seen the movie, I thought it was pretty clear that the reason why Kym&#8217;s family couldn&#8217;t deal with her was (SPOILER ALERT) that, as a result of her past drug abuse, she was responsible for her brother Ethan&#8217;s death.  It wasn&#8217;t because Kym was way too &#8216;unconventional&#8217;.  It was because Kym&#8217;s family were still angry about what Kym did.  You&#8217;re reaching to say that Demme&#8217;s true intent was to make these non-conformists into hypocrites.</p>
<p>And by the way&#8211;  I thought the multiculturalism in Rachel Getting Married was cloying.  No, I didn&#8217;t have the problem with the idea of a black man and a white woman marrying to be contrived.  From having been to a lot of weddings the past five years, I know that is more and more common these days.  This is was got on my nerves during the wedding sequences:  the combination Robyn Hitchcock, a folksy string group, a garage band playing &#8216;Here Come the Bride&#8217;, saris, acapella singing,  a hip-hop dance throw-down, and a fully loaded Brazilian Drum Band.  It was too kitschy.  And I probably would have given it all a pass if Demme hadn&#8217;t lingered so much on the festivities.  Yes, it&#8217;s a movie about a wedding, but after awhile, it started to feel like a glorified home-movie about Demme&#8217;s eclectic sensibilities.</p>
<p>However, I will admit that the acting in Rachel Getting Married is great, and the cinematography was exceptional.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115374</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115374</guid>
		<description>I wasn't so much supposing on your personal politics as making a joke. But—while I absolutely agree that Kym's behavior (AND that thing that's a spoiler, so I won't mention it) is just what this family absolutely can't assimilate, I don't necessarily believe that Demme's offering a critique of their liberalism. Or if he is, it's a—gulp—compassionate one. After all, Sister Carol, Fab Five Freddy, Robyn Hitchcock aren't all just the "Rachel" family's friends; they're his friends, too. 

And while it's true that, as you say, "nobody can deal with [Kym's] brand of actual nonconformity, her inability to simmer down to normal," it's hard also to see how they can, and sometimes, even why they ought to. I mean, how would you feel (and I mean the editorial you here, really), if somebody got up at your wedding rehearsal dinner and gave the sort of self-absorbed speech that Hathaway's Kym does? You might just swallow it for the sake of propriety (I myself had a drunken aunt get up and give a speech about what an obnoxious kid I was at my wedding, and everyone just looked at their glasses; in any case, it wasn't as if she was wrong...), but you also wouldn't kindly ascribe it to "nonconformity." You'd say she was being an inconsiderate pain in the ass. 

My own feeling was that the vibe and the cultural mix of the wedding in the film wasn't terribly different from what I've seen at gatherings hosted by affluent people who make their livings in the arts. 

And as for me, I'm a socialist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wasn&#8217;t so much supposing on your personal politics as making a joke. But—while I absolutely agree that Kym&#8217;s behavior (AND that thing that&#8217;s a spoiler, so I won&#8217;t mention it) is just what this family absolutely can&#8217;t assimilate, I don&#8217;t necessarily believe that Demme&#8217;s offering a critique of their liberalism. Or if he is, it&#8217;s a—gulp—compassionate one. After all, Sister Carol, Fab Five Freddy, Robyn Hitchcock aren&#8217;t all just the &#8220;Rachel&#8221; family&#8217;s friends; they&#8217;re his friends, too. </p>
<p>And while it&#8217;s true that, as you say, &#8220;nobody can deal with [Kym's] brand of actual nonconformity, her inability to simmer down to normal,&#8221; it&#8217;s hard also to see how they can, and sometimes, even why they ought to. I mean, how would you feel (and I mean the editorial you here, really), if somebody got up at your wedding rehearsal dinner and gave the sort of self-absorbed speech that Hathaway&#8217;s Kym does? You might just swallow it for the sake of propriety (I myself had a drunken aunt get up and give a speech about what an obnoxious kid I was at my wedding, and everyone just looked at their glasses; in any case, it wasn&#8217;t as if she was wrong&#8230;), but you also wouldn&#8217;t kindly ascribe it to &#8220;nonconformity.&#8221; You&#8217;d say she was being an inconsiderate pain in the ass. </p>
<p>My own feeling was that the vibe and the cultural mix of the wedding in the film wasn&#8217;t terribly different from what I&#8217;ve seen at gatherings hosted by affluent people who make their livings in the arts. </p>
<p>And as for me, I&#8217;m a socialist.</p>
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		<title>By: Karina Longworth</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115371</link>
		<dc:creator>Karina Longworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115371</guid>
		<description>THAT family's liberalism is unsustainable and false. Not all liberalism. I was talking about a specific case demonstrated in this film. 

I don't know why my personal politics should be an issue here, but I am neither the biggest embracer of liberal ideals, nor a McCain supporter. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THAT family&#8217;s liberalism is unsustainable and false. Not all liberalism. I was talking about a specific case demonstrated in this film. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why my personal politics should be an issue here, but I am neither the biggest embracer of liberal ideals, nor a McCain supporter. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115370</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115370</guid>
		<description>You're saying that the film's Buchman family aspires to a liberal ideal that is not just unsustainable but false. I'm asking you: if you believe liberal ideals are not just unsustainable but false, why continue to embrace them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re saying that the film&#8217;s Buchman family aspires to a liberal ideal that is not just unsustainable but false. I&#8217;m asking you: if you believe liberal ideals are not just unsustainable but false, why continue to embrace them?</p>
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		<title>By: Karina Longworth</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115362</link>
		<dc:creator>Karina Longworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115362</guid>
		<description>@Glenn: Your logic escapes me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Glenn: Your logic escapes me.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Kenny</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115361</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115361</guid>
		<description>You wrote:

"Demme is telling us that this family prides itself on its creativity, its liberalism, its openness, its ostentatious rejection of convention.

But of course, this self-styled nonconformity is not only unsustainable, it’s revealed to be totally false."

So I guess we're all voting for McCain, then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Demme is telling us that this family prides itself on its creativity, its liberalism, its openness, its ostentatious rejection of convention.</p>
<p>But of course, this self-styled nonconformity is not only unsustainable, it’s revealed to be totally false.&#8221;</p>
<p>So I guess we&#8217;re all voting for McCain, then.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Campbell</title>
		<link>http://blog.spout.com/2008/10/14/rachel-getting-married-liberal-guilt/#comment-115360</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Campbell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 13:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.spout.com/?p=6071#comment-115360</guid>
		<description>Great analysis.  I had only seen the multiculturalism of the wedding as more basically a superficial extended family that contrasts with the actual family at the center. This kind of relates to what you are saying. The Buchanans can easily unite all these people together but internally they're so separated. There's something more metaphorical in the use of the saris and especially the rehearsal dinner masala than simply upper class liberal eccentricity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis.  I had only seen the multiculturalism of the wedding as more basically a superficial extended family that contrasts with the actual family at the center. This kind of relates to what you are saying. The Buchanans can easily unite all these people together but internally they&#8217;re so separated. There&#8217;s something more metaphorical in the use of the saris and especially the rehearsal dinner masala than simply upper class liberal eccentricity.</p>
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